5.25" Floppy drives wanted

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5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby lizardb0y on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:30 am

I'm getting my KryoFlux up and running to start archiving old floppies, and find that I don't seem to have a compatible 5.25" drive to go with it.

Currently looking for any of the the following 5.25" drives which are noted as being compatible. Once up and running I'll be in a position to create disk images from most 3", 3.5" and 5.25" formats, and in future I may be able to add 8" to this list.

Epson, SD-600
Fujitsu M2553K-83B
Matsushita, JU-475-3EAF
MATSUSHITA, DDF5-27C
Mitsubishi, M4853-342M (DD only)
NEC, FD1157C
Newtronics (Mitsumi), D509, V2, 1989
Newtronics (Mitsumi), D509, V3, 1989
Panasonic, JU-475-4AK0
Panasonic JU-475-3B35
Tandon, TM75-8
Teac, FD-55GFR
Toshiba ND-0801GR
Panasonic JU-475-4AK0
Panasonic (Matsushita), JU-475-2 BGM
Y-E Data YD-380B
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby lizardb0y on Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:01 am

I should also note that it may work with other HD (1.2Mb) floppy drives, and I'm willing to try. Something that hadn't occurred to me earlier was that almost all of my drives are DD, not these newfangled HD!
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby tezza on Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:24 pm

It needs an HD drive?

If no-one has one I might have one of the above models you could borrow for the project. I've only got a couple presently not deployed in anything but I do want to hang onto them for future projects. So I'll need it back at some stage. I'll check those numbers tonight.

I'm sure you'd prefer if someone in the Wellington region could donate/sell one, but the offer is there if nothing comes up.
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby cjr on Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:47 pm

fairly sure I still have some 1.2M ones, will see what I can find and post the model #'s
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby lizardb0y on Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:36 pm

Thanks guys. I have immediate need, so will be happy to borrow in the short term. I would like rio build a small stockpile for the future so that I can offer data recovery and archiving to those who need it in the longer term.
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby tezza on Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:31 pm

I have a Panasonic JU-475-4AK0 one here. If nothing turns up from Chris, lemme know, send an address and I'll post it down. I'll need to know soon though. I can post tomorrow or Saturday. Thursday and Friday are out as I won't be able to get to the Post Office on those days.
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby cjr on Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:04 pm

Had a quick look, they're eluding me. (or went to e-day before I moved house :/ ) I probably won't get serious about searching properly until the weekend.
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby tezza on Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:42 am

Andrew,

I can post this drive today. PM me your mailing address. Alternatively you could wait until the weekend and see if Chris finds anything. I'm happy to lend you this one for the task though.
Tez (Terry Stewart) (Administrator)
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby lizardb0y on Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:53 am

tezza wrote:I can post this drive today. PM me your mailing address. Alternatively you could wait until the weekend and see if Chris finds anything. I'm happy to lend you this one for the task though.

Terry, I was sure I'd posted a reply yesterday, but apparently not. Due to the tendency for things like floppy heads to get damaged in shipping, I'll wait a bit and see if Chris finds anything over the weekend. I'm also looking for any local old computers which have a 5.25" fitted.

It's bizarre, but I actually don't seem to have any HD drives - everything I've found has been DD or non-standard.
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby SpidersWeb on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:08 am

If you can pick it up from Johnsonville, I have a Pentium with Windows 98 - networking + 1.2Mb HD + 1.44Mb HD + CD you're welcome to borrow. It's just sitting there.
I didn't really want to pull it apart, but if a whole machine would help, you can borrow it. I have enough bits to not actually *need* it as a support machine right now.

If interested let me know, so I can pull it out and retest it and the drive.

Most of my drives are DD as well. I have 3 HD, good one in that Pentium, a 'somtimes' one that floats around, and another which eats disks. Need to pick up some more isopropyl.
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby recycled on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:50 pm

Due to the tendency for things like floppy heads to get damaged in shipping,

Not seen so much now as floppy drives are seldom sent back and forth these days, so make your own shipping card. Take a floppy disc (if you don't know it's dimensions ;o) and use it as a template to mark out a piece of cardboard. Usually the stiff backing card on a pad of writing paper is thick enough, but try and use something that is glossy on both sides. Cut out the square you have marked. Don't forget to make a cut out for the hole in the centre. You can be quite creative and put a 'handle' (leave a piece sticking out at one side) if you are going to use it frequently, just ensure your drive door/lever can be closed/opened without snagging it.
Slide this into the floppy drive, close the door/lever to press the heads agains the shipping blank and lock it into place (this is the important step, otherwise you've wasted your time), wrap floppy drive and send. It used to be possible to buy plastic 'dummy discs' for shipping. Equally, you could use a clean known defective disc as a dummy - not one that has fungus webbing it's way accross the surface though...

So long as the heads are prevented from waving freely and banging into each other during transit the drive should travel fine.

You would think people familiar with using this tech 'back in the day' would remember this ;o) Perhaps I should start making some to sell on to Trade Me sellers.

I have had a quick nosey through my boxes, and can only turn up two HD floppy drives having got rid of the surplus several years back. Neither match the models listed. Is it something particular to the device that it is programmed to only work with specific drives?... I'd have thought 'who cares what's plugged in at the end of the cable so long as it responds the correct way to the signals sent!' Isn't this what is most desired of all the floppy replacement devices out there!
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby WelshWizard on Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:37 pm

This may be of help
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/ ... 20card.jpg
from Ray Carlsen web site
Make your own transit card for your 1541/1571 drives. 12-09-99

The transit card (sometimes called a "head vibration protector") that
comes with a new disk drive is an important tool. The card is made of
stiff cardboard and is the same size as a floppy disk, except for the tab
that sticks out of the front end. That tab, unlike a disk, pushes the head
stepper mechanism back to track zero when the card is inserted into the
drive. In addition, when the drive door is latched down, the heads are
allowed to rest on the card and are therefore prevented from hitting each
other in the 1571 and clone drives. More importantly for the 1571, the
head lifter mechanism is released, so any physical shock to the drive will
not bend the head mount. This is -very- important when the drive is to be
transported or shipped! A scrap disk will protect the heads and mount, but
will not keep the stepper mechanism locked in place.
One use for the transit card is often overlooked. Normally the drive
"parks" the head over the directory track (18), but when a 1541 head moves
past track 18, under some conditons, the drive can sometimes become "lost"
and fail to respond to the computer. Some disk errors can do that, as can
turning the computer or drive off before a program has reinitialized the
drive. Even if turned off and on again, the drive will not be able to read
a disk. You can send an Initialize command or format a disk to pull the
head back, but a quicker way to recover the "dead" drive is to turn it
off, insert the transit card to push the head back, remove the card and
turn the drive on again. That method does not require that the computer be
turned off, so any program running is not lost.
Early 1541 drives were shipped with a card, the CBM 251171-02. It
would fit only the 1541 because the tab on the front was quite large
(about 1.5" wide), and centered on the front of the card. A later version
of the card, a CBM 251171-03 had a smaller offset tab, and was used in the
1571 drive. That same card will work in a 1541 as well. I tested the later
card in all my 5.25" drives and it fits and works with all of them. That
includes the 1541 (both ALPS and Newtronics), the 1541-II, both versions
of the Amtech/Blue Chip (1541 and 1571 clones), the Excelerator (Oceanics)
1541 clone and the MSD SD-2 dual drive.
You can make your own card out of thick (not corrugated) cardboard or
plastic. It should be stiff enough so the tab does not bend when the card
is inserted, but not so thick (more so than a floppy disk) that it will
not fit the drive. I will include the dimensions here. Note that the tab
is offset to the right slightly, unlike the early 1541 tab which was
centered. By the way, if you have one of the early cards, you can easily
trim the tab to match these dimensions. If you're making a card from
"scratch", you can use a disk as a template (but don't forget the tab).

Insert this end of card into drive.
tab depth = 7/8" or 2.2cm
.--------------.
| |
<--------- 2 1/4"----------->|<-- 1 1/8"--->|<------- 1 7/8" ------>
5.8cm | 2.8cm | 4.8cm
| |
.----------------------------' `-----------------------.
| |
| |
| |
| Card (less tab) measures 5 1/4" (13.4cm) square |
| (same size as floppy disk) |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| . |
| . . |
| Hole in center of card . |
| . . |
| |
|<----- 1 7/8" -------> .<-- 1 9/16" diam--> .<----- 1 7/8" -----> |
| 4.7cm 4cm 4.7cm |
| . . |
| . . |
| . . |
| . |
| ^ |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| 1 7/8" |
| 4.7cm |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| V |
`-------------------------------------------------------------------'

Ray Carlsen CET
CARLSEN ELECTRONICS... a leader in trailing-edge technology.
Not all the pattern cut and pasted in post so goto web page below
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/ ... ransit.txt
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby recycled on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:02 pm

WelshWizard wrote: One use for the transit card is often overlooked. Normally the drive
"parks" the head over the directory track (18), but when a 1541 head moves
past track 18, under some conditons, the drive can sometimes become "lost"
and fail to respond to the computer.

That's an interesting note. Not being a Commodore owner, or user, - I was always envious of several of my friends for their breadbins and one guy had a 128D I was in absolute awe of even while the amiga was new on the market). I'd always been told how these drives were so over engineered they never suffered from faults, adding to my desire to have a C64 in the house. I know better now, and this is another 'gotcha' to beware of I guess.
I've got an Epson drive which still has it's transport card, tab hangs out the front proudly proclaiming it's use for shipping and 'remove before use', but remainder of card is square, as is the card in the old 40 track drive used on our BBC. Knowing the 1541 has it's own 'DOS' and CPU, lived through various incarnations, did a lot of things the designers probably never considered and was a proprietary design specifically for commodore, it does not surprise me that it would have to use a different shipping card. But as mentioned, any shipping card is better than nothing - they even mention leaving the disc in the drive too :o) So I just thought it was common knowledge, then I see the note about how fragile 5 1/4" drives are to ship! I must get out more. You must buy from the same Trade Me users who photograph electronic devices on carpet, or who send RAM out in gladwrap, hard drives wrapped only in bubble wrap... the ones I seem to be buying from at the moment.
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby lizardb0y on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:13 pm

SpidersWeb wrote:If you can pick it up from Johnsonville, I have a Pentium with Windows 98 - networking + 1.2Mb HD + 1.44Mb HD + CD you're welcome to borrow.


Thanks for the offer. That would be fantastic - I'll have to open out up to connect thee KryoFlux, bit pocket than that I have no need to disassemble. I want to image about 20 floppies, at around 10 minutes each. If any are flippies I'll have to wait until I have a drive I can hardware modify a drive to read them, but I can do side 1 to start with.

I can come around over the weekend some time - I'll PM contact details when I'm no longer dribbling with a phone browser.
lizardb0y / Andrew
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Re: 5.25" Floppy drives wanted

Postby cjr on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:24 pm

swing by here as well since you'll be nearby, grab the HcX back for Matt. :D
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