Mac LC-II restoration

Seek advice, give advice or tell others about your repair and restoration projects

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby SpidersWeb on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:52 pm

Unfortunately no, other than this LCII the only other Mac spare I have is a 1987 Mac Plus motherboard.
If I get it running (or just buy another board) I'll be very keen to hunt down the original monitor though, I just really like the look of the LC setup.

I just reinstalled the VRAM SIMM and hooked it up it to a 19" Dell with all the digital menus etc, turning the machine on and the light goes green and it picks up a 35Khz 67Hz signal but it's black. On the IBM the pattern was only visible because those displays let you set the brightness to a rediculous amount, this one doesn't.

So I think the display output works - it sets a mode, and generates HSync and VSync, but the Mac isn't trying to display anything.
I just wish it'd do something to point me in the right direction.

Two things I'm curious about. Firstly it has a lot of test connectors on the side of the board, is there anywhere I can get a list of acceptable values?
Secondly there is a block of pins - 3 x 2 witht he labels A20 A21 and J17 - I was wondering if there was supposed to be a jumper on one?


On the topic of screws, other than the drives the LC has two - one to hold the case on and the other I think might've been used to mount the fan cover (which mine is missing)? But yeah I was pretty impressed when I had the motherboard out by just pressing two tabs and pulling - crazy.
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby SpidersWeb on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:28 pm

Quick video, everyone loves a good visual reference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f96C35P9zws
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby Gibsaw on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:08 pm

recycled wrote:
Gibsaw wrote:How so?
A 'REAL' mac is a joy to work with as EVERYTHING clips together. ...<snip>... etc, etc

Sigh... Here we go... In 8 years working at Auckland Uni, I worked on just about every Mac ever made.

The mostly clip together apple cases really started with the Mac II when apple was pretending to be "open" again... However, when someone tells me they have a missing screw in a machine, checking which Mac's had clips vs screws isn't my first thought.

I tell them to find it before applying power, which is good advice for any platform.

oh and btw, (somewhat appropriately)... a "Road Apple" is Horse-Sh*t. :twisted:
"dsakey" on trademe. Apple II's are my thing.
Gibsaw
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:45 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby recycled on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:25 pm

tezza wrote:Are you sure? I could have sworn my Mac Classic II, SE30 and SE had screws inside for various bits and pieces?

Gah! Another heathen. Any Mac junkie will tell you the all-in-one computers never break. The only reason to take the cover off is to upgrade the RAM - which should be done by a true member of the church of Jobs as they are the only individuals gifted enough to wield the 'sceptre of case cracking' in anger. How dare you desecrate the impeccable doctrine of mac serviceability! (ie, 'yes, but you're not supposed to know that' - didn't I admit even the most vaunted desktop models still use screws to convert drive fixings? There simply should not be screws rattling around loose in these cases as none need to be removed to dismantle and then service the system). I better watch out what I say around here, too many engineering types.

SpidersWeb wrote:I just reinstalled the VRAM SIMM and hooked it up it to a 19" Dell with all the digital menus etc, turning the machine on and the light goes green and it picks up a 35Khz 67Hz signal but it's black. On the IBM the pattern was only visible because those displays let you set the brightness to a rediculous amount, this one doesn't.

So I think the display output works - it sets a mode, and generates HSync and VSync, but the Mac isn't trying to display anything.
I just wish it'd do something to point me in the right direction.

I expect the mac is doing it's absolute damndest to display something - it needs a repair tech to see an error number, this reports what has causing the distress of your new friend. You just have a bunch of monitors that have been manufactured to meet the (wrong for you) mass production standard of the day. Even the dell, I'd be impressed if it could manage a low 640*400. VGA cards of the vintage this would be expecting usually use line doubling to provide CGA resolutions (320*240) on (S)VGA monitors.

I recall you have some amiga tech there. If some of it roughly translates to a 1084(xx) monitor and you have a VGA to CGA cable adapter, you could try that. (I know, this monitor is rated at only 256 scan lines, but I've seen them used for 'TV resolutions' (288 vertical scan lines), you might get lucky and see a fixed picture, or even a rolling display. Your best bet is going to be searching for suitable monitors in the 14" or 15" sizes. You really need a mac monitor or true muti-frequency monitor. If it really isn't trying to display something, then it is dead to all intents and purposes.

I've been watching a discussion about upscalers on one of the BBC micro boards so that those old systems can be used with modern LCD TVs. It's something I will have to lash out on, I'm down to my last two CGA resolution monitors. May be worth a bit of research for yourself and others too. Should save a bit on power and space required if you can chuck out a few CRTs and just use a LCD screen, and may mean that you can get by using some old box and strange video output frequencies with any dodgy 'old' LCD screen.

At the end of your trials, if you don't get the 'logic board' fixed, (mac people don't say motherboard, they're too 'special for that' - though not the sort of 'special' you're thinking of) even replacing it doesn't preclude the purchase of a proper monitor. But I've been wrong about absolutely everything else so far, so what the hey.

SpidersWeb wrote:Two things I'm curious about. Firstly it has a lot of test connectors on the side of the board, is there anywhere I can get a list of acceptable values?
Secondly there is a block of pins - 3 x 2 witht he labels A20 A21 and J17 - I was wondering if there was supposed to be a jumper on one?

Mystic apple juju knowledge! Best of luck tracking down any useful service/repair manuals that tell you this. I remember a set of techie discs listed on Trade Me a few years back. (Mac service manuals on CD), they went quick and for very good money. All trusted ones who enter the temple of Jobs and are bestowed with the knowledge of trace and voltage, guard their secrets better than the Masons. Must be something in the coke that is delivered to the apple stores.

SpidersWeb wrote:On the topic of screws, other than the drives the LC has two - one to hold the case on and the other I think might've been used to mount the fan cover (which mine is missing)? But yeah I was pretty impressed when I had the motherboard out by just pressing two tabs and pulling - crazy.

Yikes. I've never known a screw to be present in the case (at the top of the back, for anybody unfamiliar with the pizza box). The case only has two clips to keep it together. I remember opening up a NEW mac LC machine at polytech after they got a couple, and was seriously worried that somebody had made a mistake that it should be so easy! (A few years ago now guys) ;op Geeze, did any other mac people know this? And fan cover? You are pulling my leg, really? I give up.

http://www.macheaven.net/manuals.php (Random url, no help whatsoever).
recycled
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Feilding

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby Carcenomy on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:49 pm

The only LC I have with more than just drive screws is my LC575, but as an AIO that's to be expected and no, none need removed to perform any servicing.
Just the local Commodore hobo and middle-aged PC hoarder.
eisa on Trademe. A lasting reminder of a Compaq fetish when I was younger.
Carcenomy
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Invercargill

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby SpidersWeb on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:05 pm

With the Dell I'd expect it to vomit up "Input out of Range", and with the IBM I'd expect at least moving garbage or flickering.
If I'm wrong about the expectation let me know. If I can grab a mac display I will, but I'm not terribly confident (if it worked, I'd be jumping up and down though).

I have a 1084S but I'd need to make that cable. (I do have a DB25 to DB15 mac style cable which came with the Amiga gear, but I have no idea if it'd actually work for this or cause havoc because it's not labelled)

With the screws, I definitely have the holes, but no idea if screws were in it when new. For the one in the middle of the case underneath, I thought fan cover because I'd seen photos of some Mac LC-II's which had a nice white plastic cover around the fan area - mine doesn't.

Found out about those jumpers though, they're for the Apple II card, no help to me :/

At the moment, I'm pointing towards hopping on ebay and doing the Apple-thing by just getting another logic board. Even if it is a display issue, there has to be something wrong with the board itself, so I think that could be the safe 'next step'.
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby Carcenomy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:39 am

DB25 to DB15...? I wonder how that'd fit into the scenario since Amigas are DB23 for video out ;)

If you get really really stuck I'm pretty sure I have an LC-III logic board spare.
Just the local Commodore hobo and middle-aged PC hoarder.
eisa on Trademe. A lasting reminder of a Compaq fetish when I was younger.
Carcenomy
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Invercargill

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby SpidersWeb on Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:14 pm

Whoops, yeah DB23 lol

If you find it, and are fine to sell it, let me know, because I'll be spending around NZD$100 to get one from the US ($35US board, $40US postage).
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby lizardb0y on Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:18 pm

When I was setting up my LC-III with the Apple IIe card I couldn't get a picture on a PC monitor using any of the Mac-VGA convert dongles, or the Mac-VGA cables I had to hand. I ended up building my own VGA cable from instructions in an Apple support article. Details here:

http://www.vintage8bit.com/content/mac- ... e-iie-card
lizardb0y / Andrew
Just another 8-bit hustler

blog: http://www.vintage8bit.com
twitter: @vintage8bit
google+: http://gplus.to/lizardb0y
trademe: andrew9 - over 500 positive trades.
lizardb0y
 
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby SpidersWeb on Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:57 pm

Did you get a black display or garbage?
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby lizardb0y on Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:19 pm

I got a black display until I used that cable. I can bring it in tomorrow if you'd like to pick it up and try it out.
lizardb0y / Andrew
Just another 8-bit hustler

blog: http://www.vintage8bit.com
twitter: @vintage8bit
google+: http://gplus.to/lizardb0y
trademe: andrew9 - over 500 positive trades.
lizardb0y
 
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby SpidersWeb on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:44 pm

That would be amazing if you could.
I'm probably a bit late posting back, but any time this week would be great and I can return the next day. If it works, I'll order the bits and make my own cable.
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby lizardb0y on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:29 pm

I'll bring it in tomorrow (Monday) so you can pick up anytime this week - PM me if you need contact details.
lizardb0y / Andrew
Just another 8-bit hustler

blog: http://www.vintage8bit.com
twitter: @vintage8bit
google+: http://gplus.to/lizardb0y
trademe: andrew9 - over 500 positive trades.
lizardb0y
 
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Wellington

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby Gibsaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:29 am

Carcenomy wrote:The only LC I have with more than just drive screws is my LC575, but as an AIO that's to be expected and no, none need removed to perform any servicing.

I expect the screw that looks like it's "missing" is the optional case cover screw.
"dsakey" on trademe. Apple II's are my thing.
Gibsaw
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:45 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: Mac LC-II restoration

Postby recycled on Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:12 pm

SpidersWeb wrote:At the moment, I'm pointing towards hopping on ebay and doing the Apple-thing by just getting another logic board. Even if it is a display issue, there has to be something wrong with the board itself, so I think that could be the safe 'next step'.


Or try Trade me to save a few pennies, and you get a few spares to go with it...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/vintage/auction-496257906.htm
Yes, also 'does not go', but you do get all that extra plastic with your money ;o)
recycled
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Feilding

PreviousNext

Return to Repair and Restoration

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron