Apple ][e Fireworks Display

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Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Gurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:15 am

I (my parents) used to have one of these 30 years ago.

Bought a ][e with green screen and Duo Disk this week – all worked perfectly for about five whole minutes. Loaded up Choplifter without a hitch.

Then
POP.
That was the end of the disk loading.
- Could this be the Duo Disk's card? I THINK the pop and smoke came from the card rather than the drive.

Powered the ][e down instantly but forgot about the monitor power.
BANG!!
Smoke.
Horror.
The monitor died too.

Oddly enough, the EXACT same thing happened when a childhood friend got his old ][e kit out of storage last year. EXACTLY the same problem.
He was pretty annoyed, as he had stored this stuff since he was a teenager in the early 90s.

- So, do I need a new Duo Disk Card?? Or is there more to this...

I won't try and repair the monitor, too scary with voltages etc.
- Was thinking about using green lighting gel over a CRT TV...
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby RonTurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:37 am

The pop then smoke pouring out is normal when plugging in old electronics, I suppose you ripped out the power plug and dumped the "blown" hardware ? If so you will be kicking yourself to know this happens so often that I have gotten so used to it that I open a window to let the smoke out and keep using the computer.

You may have noticed even while smoke is pouring out the hardware remains working, its normal to ripp out the power plug, next time leave it on and watch what happens......Nothing.

I dont find it unusual that everything you plugged in poured out smoke.

To be safe with the monitor voltages just make sure its unplugged.

You cannot make an Apple FDD card smoke, whats going to smoke on the card, an IC ? I once plugged the wrong drive into an Apple and a track burnt like a fuse wire, I fixed the track and the card still works.

You need to go to Jaycar and get some 0.47uf and 0.01uf A/C filters and open your Apple PSU and replace them there and do the same for your monitor, (no voltage inside if not turned on.)

The cloud of smelly smoke is referred to as "the smoke genie" or "the magic smoke"
Last edited by RonTurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Gurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:53 am

Thanks for the quick reply Ron.

So it was the PSU that smoked?
I'm just about to plug in the Duodrive again for another try.

Soldering is quite far beyond me – I've played about with socketed chips, ribbon cables etc, but that's about it.

Monitors terrify me – CRTs hold volatge in their capacitors, don' t they?
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby RonTurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:58 am

Gurner wrote:Thanks for the quick reply Ron.

So it was the PSU that smoked?
I'm just about to plug in the Duodrive again for another try.

Soldering is quite far beyond me – I've played about with socketed chips, ribbon cables etc, but that's about it.

Monitors terrify me – CRTs hold volatge in their capacitors, don' t they?


There are two filters inside PSU they are usually square yellow blocks but some Apples have dark brown and less square shape, they will cost less than $3 each.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby RonTurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:00 am

You will find your Apple will power up fine with the blown capacitors.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Gurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:04 am

Yep, the ][e is running, and loading from WAV files via the cassette port.

Before I pull-apart the power supply,

- Do the blocks plug in or solder in?

- Is this exactly the same for the monitor?
(And does the CRT monitor have to "rest" before I go touching the insides to avoid electric shock?
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Clym5 on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:23 am

The blocks are 99.9% always soldered in. They should be easy to unsolder. They should be easy to spot, as they will most likely be bulging or blackened.

The monitor should be very similar, but I can't say for sure, as I don't own any older Apple gear before the Macintosh Plus.

You would have to let the monitor sit for months to remove the potential of electric shock, so that isn't quite practical. As long as you aren't rubbing your hand all over the PCB, you will be fine.

The main part to avoid touching are the capacitors. They look like black cylinders. Usually some of the biggest components in there.

Hopefully I haven't said anything wrong!

If you are in Auckland, and you don't feel confident fixing it, I could do it for you maybe.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby RonTurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:30 am

Gurner wrote:Yep, the ][e is running, and loading from WAV files via the cassette port.

Before I pull-apart the power supply,

- Do the blocks plug in or solder in?

- Is this exactly the same for the monitor?
(And does the CRT monitor have to "rest" before I go touching the insides to avoid electric shock?


They solder in and dont have polarity, the monitor has the same filters, the monitor should have a leak down resistor, what brand/model ?

I am not recommending you run your AIIE without the filters of course, but say for example a system80 doesnt even have any, use a wall filter instead until you fix it properly.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby RonTurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:33 am

Clym5 wrote:You would have to let the monitor sit for months to remove the potential of electric shock, so that isn't quite practical. As long as you aren't rubbing your hand all over the PCB


Nah, just crack it open and go straight to it, remember to have it unplugged. (This is for apple mons.)

Google make/monitor and check for leak down resistor, some really old stuff may not have it but Apple mons are fine.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby RonTurner on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:53 am

I recommend you try soldering a few kitsets together before attempting something collectable, soldering is like driving a car,dont drive straight to the motorway first time or you will crash, you must practice first.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Clym5 on Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:53 pm

RonTurner wrote:Nah, just crack it open and go straight to it, remember to have it unplugged. (This is for apple mons.)


Whoops, that's exactly what I intended to say. Leaving the monitor unplugged to wait for the caps to discharge is kinda pointless.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Gibsaw on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:09 pm

It's kinda obvious, but probably worthwhile mentioning that you should tell your friend with a IIe not to trash it as well. As Gavin is outlining, they're very repairable. :D
"dsakey" on trademe. Apple II's are my thing.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Gurner on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:34 am

Yeah, he's a bit disillusioned after carefully storing it in two large boxes since he was a teenager, only to have it die.

We used to swap games at school and play on the weekends. He had a contact to get loads of games, I must have gotten over 40 games off him.
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Gurner on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:36 am

By the way – WHY is it safe to open-up a ][e green screen monitor without waiting like with other CRT monitors?

Does this mean you can touch everything inside safely??
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Re: Apple ][e Fireworks Display

Postby Gibsaw on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:54 am

He was implying that because the caps are faulty they shouldn't be storing any charge... It will be the main filter caps that have probably died.

The high voltage caps may be fine. I would still proceed with caution.
"dsakey" on trademe. Apple II's are my thing.
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