making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Seek advice, give advice or tell others about your repair and restoration projects

making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby MarinaS on Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:13 am

Hi everyone!
I have a client who wants the computer of his childhood - so he can play all the games he never finished as a kid... Since he's a paying client, he gets what he wants :0

The system specifically is a model 80 IBM (circa 1992)... with all original equipment - monitor, keyboard, mouse, joystick, etc...

Well, it took months but I FINALLY found one in good condition - actually mint condition... Still sealed in the original boxes... So we got it... It cost a lot more than I thought on ebay, but apparently he wasn't the only one wanting one... It arrived way quicker than I expected, I unpacked everything... It was all factory sealed with the original IBM tape... Ah what a joy it was to remove everything from their factory sealed baggies too :0

Anywho... I plugged everything in, and much to my surprise - although the monitor works great, the computer not. No noise. No beep. No fan. No nothing.

Right... so I opened up the case... Everything looked ok, no capacitors had exploded or looked like they were bowing... So I started taking out everything one by one to see if that was the power issue. Nope. Didn't matter what I took out - still no fan spinning. No beep. No nothing.

I got out my trusty multimeter and tested the voltage (DC) on the power supply. It gave me the readings that would indicate to me a bad power supply on a newer system. I don't know if that applies to older systems...

I tried plugging in JUST the power supply... Still nothing. No fan either.

So I think the PSU is bad...

Along with this one primo system (lets call it primary) I also got off ebay another 8530 system (let's call it secondary). The secondary system was JUST the computer - which works just fine although it does make a horribly loud noise upon boot up - it does however boot up... So I though well, maybe I could take the power supply from the secondary system and put it in the first. Easy, right?

Wrong. Apparently the CONNECTORS are different! Huh? Didn't think that was the case on the old 30s... Thought there was only one type! But apparently not...

The primary's motherboard connector is a 12 + 5 pin dealio (2 different plugs, one 12, one 15)... The secondary is two plugs, identical - 12 pins each total - 2 rows, 6 holes on each row, each row a different size too)...

So... Now here's my boat load of questions... :0

Is there such a thing as a converter connector that would allow me to plug the secondary PSU into it, attached the converter connector, then be able to plug it into the primary's motherboard?

If no... can you take a more modern psu (like a 300watt or less), get an at/atx converter connector and thereby plug it into primary's motherboard? is such a thing possible? does such a connector exist? would it run to hot? or just plain short out all these older components?

if no... where is a good place to find a working PSU for this? I am only lukewarm on getting one from an old system - because there's no guarantee how long that will last... but if it's the only way, then it's the only way.

Also, I have no way of testing (or don't know how, happy to take direction if you know) the cmos battery. It's the old Dallas battery... If that battery is bad (again I don't know if it is) would that brick the whole thing?

Thanks for any thoughts and/or suggestions!!!!!!!!!!!
MarinaS
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:48 am

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby SpidersWeb on Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:18 pm

MarinaS wrote:Is there such a thing as a converter connector that would allow me to plug the secondary PSU into it, attached the converter connector, then be able to plug it into the primary's motherboard?

Not off the shelf, but you could make one yourself. You'll need to identify +-5 +12 -12 and -5 - then solder it to something that supplies those voltages.

MarinaS wrote:If no... can you take a more modern psu (like a 300watt or less), get an at/atx converter connector and thereby plug it into primary's motherboard? is such a thing possible? does such a connector exist? would it run to hot? or just plain short out all these older components?

Same as above - solder the wires from the existing connector to the new PSU. New PSU wont fit, there will be lots of custom mounting / soldering - but a slightler newer ATX or AT PSU PCB should fit inside (measure first). This is my usual "go to" when an original and non-standard power supply has failed.

With power supplies wattage is the maximum rating for the supply - so a 300W supply wont deliver 300W to everything it plugs in to - that's just the maximum it can deliver before the supply itself will shutdown/overheat. As long as the voltages to each line match the original - there will be no differences whatsoever in heat / power consumption of the components inside.

MarinaS wrote:if no... where is a good place to find a working PSU for this? I am only lukewarm on getting one from an old system - because there's no guarantee how long that will last... but if it's the only way, then it's the only way.

I just waited for another machine with non-power related issues to turn up and grabbed that - I ended up using 3 Model 30's (all broken in some way) and ended up with a single good working unit, and with some repair work potentially a second. Sometimes you'll also find the PSU's being sold on ebay - but make sure it works before ordering!

I agree with you though, it's old too, so could fail. This is something that's bothered me as well .

MarinaS wrote:Also, I have no way of testing (or don't know how, happy to take direction if you know) the cmos battery. It's the old Dallas battery... If that battery is bad (again I don't know if it is) would that brick the whole thing?

No, it just wont hold the time/date and will moan each time it powers up (Model 30 that is) - but I'd worry about that after it starts :) It will display 161 and 163 error messages when this battery fails.

Hopefully that helps in someway.
Also tezza mentioned in his blog that one of his Model 30's had a faulty power switch - so that might be worth checking (taking safety precautions etc, it is mains voltage there).
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby MarinaS on Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:04 am

Hi again!
Wow - SpidersWeb! Thanks for all the info - you definitely gave me hope :0

do you by chance know of any videos or written out step by step on how to solder a newer PSU to the old connector? Or could you walk me through it? I know how to solder (I have several soldering irons and a large spool of silver solder lol, including one cold soldering iron which is a nice idea but doesn't really work as well as the hot ones I think it must have been a fad lol)...

The big thing is what do i do - cut off and pull out the old wires from the old and new PSUs and then solder the new psu to the old connector?

is there anywhere that helps me identify what wires are what?

also, i know the switch on the old psu is the issue... i had pulled the old psu out of the system... i hadn't removed the switch part only because two of the screws holding it on there are stripped (the one thing that pisses me off the most is stripped screws by the factory and there always seems to be a HUGE abundance of them lol)... ALL my screw drivers failed to remove it... and i have a large variety of them... the screws are actually hexidecimal or universal ones but nothing would remove them... should i even bother removing that tiny little box on the psu? do i really need it on the new psu? or can i rig something?

again, this machine is going to a client, he won't care what's inside and how it works as long as it looks primo and works... he is NOT technical, although he says he is... a brief conversation with him tells me beyond knowing how to plug in a usb drive, that's about as technical as he gets... lol
MarinaS
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:48 am

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby SpidersWeb on Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:52 pm

Yep if you want to do a PSU replacement I should be able to help map the wires. I've done this in the past, so still have an AT PSU wired in to a faulty Model 30, I'll just need to double check my work and I'll post a photo or two and some more details. Being an ISA machine, my trick is to usually find the standard pin for each voltage (they all feed to specific pins on the bus) and using a multimeter to track which input it connects to.

IBM did like to use security torx screws on many of their power supplies. Compaq also did this, so I keep a security bit set handy :) If the switch actually is faulty I can send a replacement if you're in NZ (since I have two spares). Even with the replacement PSU board installed, you'll still want a working switch.
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby MarinaS on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:17 am

ooh! that would be awesome if you could help steer me through the maze of mapping out the wires on the PSUs! i eager await your reply! Thanks again!
MarinaS
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:48 am

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby tezza on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:29 am

SpidersWeb wrote:Yep if you want to do a PSU replacement I should be able to help map the wires. I've done this in the past, so still have an AT PSU wired in to a faulty Model 30, I'll just need to double check my work and I'll post a photo or two and some more details.

Jono, just bear in mind MarinaS has a model 80. The wires may be the same as a Model 30 but just checking you didn't miss that.
Tez (Terry Stewart) (Administrator)
Collection: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/col ... /index.htm
Projects and Articles: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/index.htm
Twitter: @classiccomputNZ | YouTube: Terry Stewart
Trade Me: tezza5
tezza
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2291
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 pm
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby MarinaS on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:32 am

Model 80?

Did I miss something - this is a model 30... right?
MarinaS
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:48 am

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby tezza on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:36 am

MarinaS wrote:Model 80?

Did I miss something - this is a model 30... right?

Ok, maybe I'm confused. I just read the posts again and the task is to try to get a Model 30 PSU working on a Model 80 board, yes?
Tez (Terry Stewart) (Administrator)
Collection: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/col ... /index.htm
Projects and Articles: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/index.htm
Twitter: @classiccomputNZ | YouTube: Terry Stewart
Trade Me: tezza5
tezza
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2291
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 pm
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby SpidersWeb on Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:15 pm

tezza wrote:
SpidersWeb wrote:Yep if you want to do a PSU replacement I should be able to help map the wires. I've done this in the past, so still have an AT PSU wired in to a faulty Model 30, I'll just need to double check my work and I'll post a photo or two and some more details.

Jono, just bear in mind MarinaS has a model 80. The wires may be the same as a Model 30 but just checking you didn't miss that.


Oh, the thread title said "Model 30" "8530" and I got mixed up by the looks.
Yes a Model 80 is a different scenario. I don't think I have an 80 here.
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby MarinaS on Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:15 am

No. This is definitely a Model 30. Sorry, they both say IBM Model 8530 on the back - but there both model 30s...

I think the difference is one is a AT and the other an XT? Correct me if I am wrong - I will admit it's been a long time since I've seen these kinds of systems and don't remember anymore everything I knew then lol...

I should give an update to...

The other system was working (at least the first time I plugged it in), but now it gives the errors:
601 diskette drive error
and
1701 fixed disk error

any idea what is up with it?
MarinaS
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:48 am

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby MarinaS on Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:18 am

I should add it, the first time I booted it up it even went into windows (3.0)

but now it doesn't even do that. it gives a date/time error (it didn't before) and those two other errors.

i will admit i had monkeyed with it cause i had thought i could take out the components and just put it in the newer case (and make my client happy) but now I just get errors. I really hope I didn't break it.

I know this much

601 error - General diskette or adapter failure
1701 error - Fixed disk or adapter general error

but i don't know specifically what that means! I tried both sets of cables and now all i get is those errors... i get them no matter which hard drive i plug in... i even try just to put the start up disk in the disk drive and boot off that but it's a no go...

Any suggestions you could give would be appreciated!

HELP!
MarinaS
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:48 am

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby Clym5 on Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:26 pm

Have you touched any part of the motherboard or any other components directly, not just on the edge or something like that?

I've never used, yet alone seen a Model 30, so I don't have any clue how they work, but on the off-chance this is a possibility, have you configured the HDD and FDD in BIOS?

The existing settings would of been wiped when, for whatever reason, the BIOS battery went flat. That's also why It's asking you for the date.

I could be completely wrong here, and seem like an idiot, but it's worth a shot.
Amiga 4000: Apollo Turbo 040, 128MB Fast, 40gb HDD, CD-ROM (needs internet)
C64: 1541U-II, MixSID, WiFi, LumaFix64
ZX Spec, A1200, CD32, MacPlus/SE, A500, BBC Turbo Master (NASA), 2600, Acorn 4000, VIC-20, IBM 5155, GameBoy
Clym5
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:23 pm
Location: Meadowbank, Auckland

Re: making an IBM model 30 work (8530)

Postby SpidersWeb on Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:13 pm

So we have a good power supply and a system starting now? That's good.

The floppy drives are known for failing - personally I haven't had this - but I'm told there is a capacitor on the PCB that causes faults like that when it fails. Try switching in another drive if available. The machine will auto detect the floppy drives on startup thanks to some ID pins, and this is necessary to access the "BIOS" - you will need a copy of the correct reference disk to set the computer up. From my understanding with talking to the OP, we are actually talking about a Model 30-286 (MarinaS please correct me if this is incorrect) - a copy of the reference disk can be found here: http://www.walshcomptech.com/selectpccbbs/

Once that's complete, the next step is doing the battery replacement (fun times).

After those bits are sorted, hopefully the drive comes right after the correct setup. A good sign is if you can hear the hard drive spinning. I'm just going to clean the connectors on mine to see if I can get it to spring to life (my spare refuses to spin up). If it doesn't come right, these machines are ISA, so you could fit another storage solution (SCSI would be my suggestion). Getting a 286 running is usually quite an easy procedure - but these are a little bit "special" at times because the industry stopped following IBM by this point, so drop in replacements are tricky. (NB: I talked with the poster, and my understanding is we are in fact trying to to revive a Model 30).
Wanted - Dead or Alive - Reward $$$: Compaq Deskpro 8088 / 286 / 386 - IBM RT 6150/6151 parts - AT&T 3B2 parts
VC Twitter
SpidersWeb
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Wellington


Return to Repair and Restoration

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron