New Zealand Vintage Computer Forums

I got an email this week saying as below.
Now some may remember trade-me cancelling one of my sales of a UK NES last year under some electrical act which says it's illegal.
In my case it wasn't, since the item was older that a certain date, not that trade-me responded to my email regarding it.
Now they are just blanket banning foreign goods. And in a sense blanket banning sales of vintage items that don't originate in NZ.
What a bunch of dicks.

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Hi Matt,
As you've recently sold an item that included a power supply or charger, we wanted to remind you of the rules around the sale of electrical items on Trade Me.
It is the responsibility of sellers to ensure that an item is safe before you list it on the site.
Most electrical items require a supplier declaration of conformity (SDOC) before they can be sold, while other items considered higher risk also require safety approval or certification. For example, decorative lights and power plug adaptors require an approval before they can be offered for sale.
Trade Me works very closely with Energy Safety to ensure that sellers are meeting their legal obligations. If Energy Safety asks you for your SDOC, you must supply it to them.
For more information on electrical items, visit the Energy Safety website and check out their guide to supplying safe electrical products.
We'd also like to remind you that items with foreign plugs can't be sold on the site. These plugs are not safe for use in New Zealand. Including an adaptor is not permitted as a workaround.
Cheers,
The Trade Me Team

Interesting. They may have been sensitized by that recent fire which (at least by the news report I saw) was a faulty non-standard plug.

While I'm all for safety, I'm surprised this law relates to second-hand goods. It seems to me a very crude blunt instrument. Selling brand-new electrical goods is one thing, but second hand goods always have the potential to be hacked around with. For example, would selling an item with a non-standard plug be any riskier than selling one where the owner might have made some electrical repairs, inside and unseen. Whose to say these repairs would have been done safely? I don't see non-standard plugs as a big safety risk as you need an adaptor anyway. Even standard plugs can be unsafe if not wired or manfactured properly?

I've just bought a Chinese el chepo UV EPROM eraser off ebay. It arrived in the post yesterday and although being 240V it has one of those two-pin plugs where the pins are parallel (smilar to a US plug). Luckily I had an adaptor. The irony is I could import it new into the country but it seems I won't be able to sell it second-hand on TradeMe.

I wonder if this means those 110V Apples etc. we see occasionally now can't be listed?

I bought an electron this year that had the plug fall apart when I went to remove it from the socket... yet that was a NZ style plug.

Interesting! TM clearly don't understand that enthusiasts are buying and restoring this kit, not the general public!

Perhaps another good example of "the law is an ass"

My brother recently had to certify a domestic appliance manufactured here in NZ and it is a costly exercise, let alone modifying something from 110 to 240V as well.

The electrical safety cert is only one part of it these days as we have to consider interference as well. Hence you find the c-tick cert on all appliances including your locally assembled PC's http://www.rsm.govt.nz/cms/importers-and-exporters/suppliers/how-to-comply I know some Govt agency was looking at upping the anti on this over the next year or so in combination with their Aussie counterparts with the fall out being all locally assembled PC's were up for an extra cost paid direct to some govt agency at time of assembly... It all looked like an extra tax that would finally kill off the locally assembled PC here in NZ once and for all! It will be interesting to see if this eventuates or not.

Now back on topic.. I have a few 110V Apple's, some of which when opening the PSU I just needed to swap over an internal lead and I was up and racing on 240V this proved true for the LISA and the profiles... yet to look at the Apple III.

It's more an example of "trademe is an ass". They're entirely a law unto themselves these days... They make fickle decisions and when bad shit is really being done, refuse to help.

I want to see ebay kick their ass so bad it hurts.

Gibsaw wrote:It's more an example of "trademe is an ass". They're entirely a law unto themselves these days... They make fickle decisions and when bad shit is really being done, refuse to help.

I want to see ebay kick their ass so bad it hurts.

I've never looked on ebay to see what sells from NZ hence have no appreciation whether NZD'ers are on there selling, at least in a domestic sales point of view. I was thinking of selling household stuff and all my non-computer collections on sella, but might investigate ebay now. Sella just doesn't feel legit as I browse a good few categories and search on a dozen phrases for computers, video games, calculators, robots etc which on trademe return plentiful results but never ever on sella have I seen any results returned. It makes me lose confidence in all their other categories as well. They went down the numbers strategy route to impress with the quantities of listings. Just compare the broad antiques category.

Speaking of law under self, I wonder how long this bitcoin auction will last : http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Coins/Other/auction-388477858.htm

If the law were sensible, you'd think stating information clearly on the sale would be enough to create an exception when selling old electrical goods. I've come not to expect any consistency in matters of law.

As I understand it, second hand electrical goods sold without am electrical safety certificate can be sold without power adapters or power cords. That's how the recycle centre does it here. there may also be so notice that they are sold as parts, not as working appliances, though I don't clearly recall if that is the case. That ought to be good enough for Trade Me surely.

lizardb0y wrote:That ought to be good enough for Trade Me surely.

or perhaps on every auction state "I have an overseas power adapter for this computer but it cannot be sold with this auction in accordance to trademe's T&Cs". I have seen something similar on an auction before in the past. I'm sure most people would be able to rub a couple of sticks together and ask for it after the auction concludes. It doesn't help however when a person's auction gets yanked by trademe without knowing the rules/law.

coogie wrote:Now back on topic.. I have a few 110V Apple's, some of which when opening the PSU I just needed to swap over an internal lead and I was up and racing on 240V this proved true for the LISA and the profiles... yet to look at the Apple III.

Coogie, do you have the details of this? It's not the first time I've heard about the Apple II PSU being able to be changed to 240, and it would be very useful.

Gibsaw wrote:

coogie wrote:Now back on topic.. I have a few 110V Apple's, some of which when opening the PSU I just needed to swap over an internal lead and I was up and racing on 240V this proved true for the LISA and the profiles... yet to look at the Apple III.

Coogie, do you have the details of this? It's not the first time I've heard about the Apple II PSU being able to be changed to 240, and it would be very useful.

I would find this very useful as well.

Sorry Guys, No can do for the 110V AII+, IIe, IIC+, IIGS or the Apple III (not sure about the IIIplus) but definitely possible for the 5MB & 10MB Profile & the 1.8Amp Lisa PSU.

Had this reconfirmed recently after opening my 110V II+ PSU (Astec) which recently blew a filtercap BTW this makes it my 3rd PSU to pop one. I think Terry has hit this on a few occasions as well...
If interested the Lisa PSU Schematics can be found here: http://groups.google.com/group/lisalist/browse_thread/thread/6d5b0b45fe69179/ab9000f1fc21a061?lnk=gst&q=power+supply+schematic#ab9000f1fc21a061

I should add when looking at the guts of these early Apple PSU's there are a lot of similarities, as they are all using the same switching mode design, however rather than me rabbit on check out what these guys have to say...
http://lukazi.blogspot.com/2011/06/power-supply-conversion.html
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/blog/45
http://homepage.mac.com/jorgechamorro/a2things/a2c+Web/index.html

I like the Idea of the 'little john adapter' as it would be nice to eliminate PSU issues altogether in favour of something with a bit more oomph.

Yes, I have had a couple of Lisa PSU caps go on me. The PSU was already for 240V though. From memory I haven't had to repair an Apple II+/IIe one yet.

However, my general experience with Astec PSUs from other machines (TRS-80 Mod 4/Osborne 1A) many are set up for either 240 or 110V and it's just a matter of shifting a wire or jumper to switch from one to the other.